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Integral Food Fights Should Be More Integral
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Originally uploaded by manuelcastano.
Is it just me or the integral food fight in cyberspace is becoming too boring already? Don't get me wrong, I love to see these debates happening as long as the results are constructive instead of never-ending antagonism tangenting into infinity and devolving into YSLE! name calling.
C'mon! These are the kinds of things I avoid by NOT watching stupid reality TV shows! These "grown up" people just don't know when to shut the hell up! Personally, integral or otherwise, I'm really starting to get nauseous from all these "integral" debates.
I think these people should just move on with whatever they do best. Frank Visser has chosen to do the right thing:
"Starting today, Integral World will proceed with a different focus: a wider definition of integral, including and transcending Ken Wilber."
I say awesome! I definitely agree with that and it will actually provide more perspectives as opposed to nitpicking AQAL ad nauseum. Sometimes the best criticism is to provide MORE alternatives. I for one would love to explore more versions of integral.
As for Wyatt Earpy, I think he's done with his polemic (for now). I hope he's done because if he continues to answer and rebutt endless criticisms then he wouldn't have time to write new interesting stuff and captain the I-I starship.
However, next time Wyatt Earpy decides to put on his guns, saddles his horse with no name and questionable gender, and rides back into the Wild West of banging "mental fortress," I prefer to see him dueling with more mainstream thinkers who are recognized as authorities in their respective fields (e.g. Noam Chomsky (on terrorism), David Lane (on consciousness), Richard Dawkins (on religion, evolution), Daniel Dennett (on consciousness), etc...). Now that would be more entertaining. That would attract more spectators. That will promote integral/AQAL more into the mainstream. That will expose AQAL into more "valid" criticisms. That would have more value. That would be more fun. Still nauseating but more fun.
In the meantime, I see little value with the on-going "integral" debates. They only deepen and widen the great divide that was already there in the first place. The critics hated Wilber more, the "minions" admired the coolness of Wilber more, and the debate goes on, and on, and on, and on... like an energizer bunny who just had a viagra overdose.
I love integral in general; I love AQAL in particular because it expanded my own view of reality. I think it made me a better person physically, mentally, and spiritually. I have no plans of getting advanced degrees on integral or write long-ass theoretical papers on AQAL. I'll leave the "integral" hacking, slicing and dicing to those who are impassioned to do so. I'll leave it to history to decide where Ken Wilber's place will be in academic and theoretical domains in the Kosmos.
I admire action (e.g. Warren Buffett) more than empty-shadowy intellectual words. As a good buddy of mine once said, "I’m here to live a fluffy life, not to talk about it." I couldn't agree more. I'm here to live a more integral life, not to get lost in time-wasting intellectual food fights. And that is my own personal injunction.
~C (is for Chaos, not Cute and Cuddly)
P.S. Happy Independence Day (United States).
July 4, 2006 at 03:13 AM in Integral Stuff | Permalink
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Comments
dude - so with you - that food fight got boring weeks ago - I have just been hunkering down so as to stay out of the line of fire of the mashed potatoes . . . :)
Posted by: kate | Jul 4, 2006 7:18:36 AM
"Is it just me or ..."
It's just you. It's always just you. Go clip your toenails. And if they're already clipped, clip off your toes.
Posted by: Tom A. | Jul 4, 2006 8:16:39 AM
Here's a better name for your post: "Obsequious and the Gladiators" starring not-a-Victor and not-Mature. ::a rutabaga hits C4 in the head::
Posted by: Tom A. | Jul 4, 2006 8:26:45 AM
And finally ...
I do wonder C4 if in real life you are an eighth-grade girl at the mall or are deluded into thinking you're Tiberius, since we are supposed to worry so much about you getting bored.
Here's a tip: When you are bored, get up and do something else. If a TV program bores you, change the channel. If a webpage bores you, move on. Generally, people who get bored easily are incurious. Perhaps that's your problem. But there is certainly no reason for you to bore us with your jejune whining about being bored.
Tom takes a spoon and catapults wads of mash potatoes into C4's eye-eye.
Posted by: Tom A. | Jul 4, 2006 9:30:09 AM
oh Tom, Tom, Tom, are you pissed at me because i dont' respond to you anymore? you poor soul. here's a response :P
at first i was tempted to delete your stupid comments. but i decided to leave them up here so people can see how arrogant and deluded you are.
keep em coming. the more senseless stuff you post, the more you show your darker shadows and cluelessness. i say do yourself a favor and just go play in your own den with your cats and mice if you have nothing intelligent to say.
~C (for Clueless people are funny most of the time)
Posted by: ~C4Chaos | Jul 4, 2006 2:04:39 PM
C4,
Overall good post I thought.
Just one slight correction--from my end. Noam Chomsky is not an expert in terrorism nor Dawkins in religion. They think they're experts is probably better or other people who maybe don't know any better think they are, but not so much.
Those are precisely the areas where they are not expert. Chomsky is an expert in linguistic formation and Dawkins in evolutionary biology. Not politics and religion. They are certainly free to their views in those areas, just when they are so completely one-sided and prejudicial, can't really call that expertise or insight. Not in my book anyway.
peace bro.
Posted by: Chris Dierkes | Jul 4, 2006 5:15:36 PM
Chris,
exactly! in the case of Dawkins and Chomsky i didn't mean to imply they are experts on the topics i suggested. but they are recognized thinkers so that makes them "experts" whenever they tackle areas such as the ones i've mentioned above.
case in point:
here is Chomsky talking about terrorism on Charlie Rose fer Chrissakes!
here is Richard Dawkins talking about and thrashing religion, in a full-featured documentary fer Chrissakes!
so isn't it more fun to engage them and tell them how partial they are?
you tell me :)
~C
Posted by: ~C4Chaos | Jul 4, 2006 5:23:14 PM
My comments are hilarious and keep your readers coming back and keep them from getting bored!
I am providing a service. I don't want you to respond to my comments; it would be like having a standup comedian get interupted by a heckler. [Even though, admittedly, this being YOUR blog, I am more of the heckler here.]
::Rolls basket of killer tomatoes at C4::
But seriously, folks.
::Flaps hands to hush laughter and applause::
Wilber's Earpy post PROVES that he is inauthentic. His methods are currently being shown at the Cormar blog to be standand methods of cult leaders and his trance-led sheeple are clearly ba-ba-baing along so they can be shorn of their wool!
::"He's Right!" yells a man in the audience.::
So, What do you say everybody!? Let's LEAVE Wilber-trance-sylvania and step out INTO THE SUNLIGHT AND BREATHE THE FRESH CLEAN AIR! Follow me to Open Integral! A world of truth, justice and the Integral Way!
::The crowd woops and hollers its approval, and they all get out of their chairs.::
COME! This way!!!
Posted by: Tom A. | Jul 4, 2006 8:37:25 PM
well that's more like it Tom. much better comment.
"So, What do you say everybody!? Let's LEAVE Wilber-trance-sylvania and step out INTO THE SUNLIGHT AND BREATHE THE FRESH CLEAN AIR! Follow me to Open Integral! A world of truth, justice and the Integral Way!"
but then again, i just quoted and hyperlinked to Frank V. saying the same thing:
"Starting today, Integral World will proceed with a different focus: a wider definition of integral, including and transcending Ken Wilber."
i just said the same thing too:
"I admire action (e.g. Warren Buffett) more than empty-shadowy intellectual words. As a good buddy of mine once said, "I’m here to live a fluffy life, not to talk about it." I couldn't agree more. I'm here to live a more integral life, not to get lost in time-wasting intellectual food fights. And that is my own personal injunction."
but at least i don't go around telling people to "Follow me to Open Integral..." or whatever that means. now that's funny.
::the crowd looks back as it makes its way to the exit, smiles at ~C4 in ecstatic approval, and collectively chants, "NOW THAT MAKES MORE SENSE! YOU DA MAN, ~C4! WE LOVE YOU! WOOT!"
::the crowd exits into the cool breeze of the evening. looks at the night sky adorned by countless bright stars and silently wonders, "who am i?" "who are we?"
Posted by: ~C4Chaos | Jul 5, 2006 1:25:02 AM
Hi ~C4,
I really like your blog and especially your insights into Wilberianism – actually that’s when I stumbled over your work.
This whole Wyatt Earp thing has really gotten me into a most interesting and - by now - helpful spiritual crisis. Which has now led me to something I call 'cooperative spirituality' (guess some would call it mean green stuff, but never mind).
Just embarking on that path.
If you want to read more about it, you'll find some here
Much Love,
Mushin
Posted by: Mushin | Jul 13, 2006 12:05:07 AM
